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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 22, 2011 4:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The vexing Donna question

OK, so we all know that the boys were on a quest to achieve the best-possible live sound, perhaps never more so than in the 73-74 period many of us hold so dear.

It's also been stated many times that one of the reasons - maybe the main reason - that Donna didn't always sound "just exactly perfect" was because she didn't have a monitor on stage.

So, the big question is WHY didn't she have a monitor? Was the quest for great sound limited to the instruments? Did they not consider voices instruments? Anyone shed any light on this baffling contradiction?

Thanks

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jun 23, 2011 7:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

From an article about Owsley and The Wall of Sound: The Wall of Sound acted as its own monitor system, and its location directly behind the band meant the musicians could hear exactly what the audience was hearing. Because this arrangement is prone to feedback, Stanley and Alembic designed a self-canceling microphone system to prevent the squealing distortion. Their system used pairs of condenser microphones, with one microphone out of phase from the other. The vocalist sang into only one of the microphones, and the other microphone picked up whatever other sound was present in the stage environment. A differential summing amp added the signals together so that the sound common to both microphones (the sound from the Wall) was canceled, and only the vocals were amplified. Not sure about the whole "the band heard what the audience heard" thing. If that was true you'd think Jerry would have strangled Donna early on. Wait, maybe her sound WAS the result of being strangled by Jerry.
This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2011-06-23 14:00:33

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 23, 2011 9:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

obliged!

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 23, 2011 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

I don't believe the monitor theory. I think she could hear as well as the others - especially in the Wall of Sound period. She's mentioned in interviews, though, that when listening to tapes after the shows she could tell that she was off......which still doesn't explain why they never worked that out! Perhaps (as with all their vocal issues) the band just shrugged and let it go... In '76, it seems they'd solved the problem though, perhaps due to the change in sound systems or in rehearsals.

My guess is in '72-74 the band was playing too loud for her, so she had to push her voice out of its comfort range to match them. (And it's harder to hear whether you're in key when you're yelling!) She usually does better in quiet songs, right? And, I'd have to check AUDs to be sure, but she may be more distracting on our SBDs than she was in the theaters.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 23, 2011 9:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

For some reason I expected to get jumped on for asking this (stupid?) question, so thank you all for the cogent replies. I guess in the end it doesn't really matter why her sound was so off - it just is.

I also have wondered if it wasn't a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy: "vocals aren't really what we're about, let's concentrate on the music" and the more that attitude prevailed, the worse the vocals got.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 23, 2011 11:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

your comments made me think of this video clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEH2xmaQp78

Her first attempt is loud and annoying however with a little practice and advice from Jerry she gets it right. Gotta love Billy during this clip.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 23, 2011 10:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

Neat clip!

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Jun 22, 2011 11:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

sounds like vince didnt have one either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!omg!!!

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Poster: polarized blue Date: Jun 22, 2011 10:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

We had a phrase "Two Guitars, Bass and Drum, sound so loud it'll make you numb"

I had a little bar band with my brothers and a friend in the late 90's. I was the one who stood in the middle, right in front of the kick drum, and we definitely had monitor problems, mostly down to the expense of buying more and more equipment. So the sound was mostly mixed to hear each of the instruments, which were all very loud from the row of amps behind us. Vocals were a problem, and evident from listening to tapes we made, sometimes went off-key in the heat of a real rocker. I had always considered myself a real good singer since childhood - and was treated to lead singer roles in lots of school productions and talent shows, but when we tried to make our dreams real, that was the weak link in the whole chain for our band. Now, I can play my guitar better than those days, but my singing voice has gone all out of training, so it cracks when I try to reach the same range as in my younger days. Would love to learn how to re-train it to bring it back to near what it used to be. I know the ravages of time will never allow my full voice to come back, but it'd be nice to be able to carry a band again if I ever get off my ass and try again. Being a dad has really changed my commitments, but now they're getting older, I keep feeling it's time to get off my ass and jam!

If that's true of Donna's monitors, then I really feel for her, because in my own small and insignificant way, I've been there. I don't have any info on the Dead's monitor setup, but that is a good theory.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 23, 2011 9:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

ty!

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Poster: Chiney Cat Date: Jun 23, 2011 6:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

Sometimes it seems to my ears that in certain songs, especially where Jerry is singing the lead melody, they get to the chorus when Donna comes in with the harmony part, and Jerry seems to back off and the harmony line is too loud and prominent. It suggests that maybe the vocal mix was not quite right, and Donna was just mixed too loud.

Then again, nothing was going to help that "Playin" wail...

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 23, 2011 1:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The vexing Donna question

Switching the ON-OFF Mode Selector Switch to "OFF" would have been a good choice......